AppleInsider
Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014
As the controversy over persistent location tracking in the iPhone and Google Android devices continues to surge, representatives from Apple and Google have been summoned to a Senate judiciary hearing on mobile technology privacy in May.
Democratic Senator Al Franken, who chairs the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Privacy, will hold the hearing, titled "Protecting Mobile Privacy: Your Smartphones, Tablets, Cell Phones and Your Privacy," on May 10.
Alongside the requested representatives from Apple and Google, witnesses at the hearing would include officials from the Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission; Ashkan Soltani, independent privacy researcher and consultant and Justin Brookman, Director of the Center for Democracy and Technology's Project on Consumer Privacy.
?Recent advances in mobile technology have allowed Americans to stay connected like never before and put an astonishing number of resources at our fingertips,? Franken said in a statement. ?But the same technology that has given us smartphones, tablets, and cell phones has also allowed these devices to gather extremely sensitive information about users, including detailed records of their daily movements and location. This hearing is the first step in making certain that federal laws protecting consumers? privacy?particularly when it comes to mobile devices?keep pace with advances in technology."
After security researchers revealed last week that Apple's iOS 4 operating system stores a detailed log of user's locations, Franken and other government officials sent concerned letters to Apple.
Last week, two customers filed a class-action lawsuit against Apple, seeking refunds for their iPhones. The plaintiffs claimed they would never have bought the devices if they had known of the location tracking.
A report from The Wall Street Journal on Monday further ignited the issue when it revealed that location tracking appears to continue on the iPhone even when location services are disabled on the device.
South Korea, France, Germany and Italy have all reportedly initiated investigations into the practice.
iPhone location data plotted | Source: O'Reilly Radar
Also on Monday, Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan called for a meeting with Apple and Google in a letter to the companies addressing concerns over the storing of user location data.
?I want to know whether consumers have been informed of what is being tracked and stored by Apple and Google and whether those tracking and storage features can be disabled,? said Madigan. ?It?s important that these companies ensure that their users? private information is protected.?
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
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Reply 1 of 76
a_greerPosts: 4,594member
April 25, 2011 7:43PM
I understand this is bad, but with all the crap going on in the world, it seems like a waste of teh senate's valuable time - why not look into things like the dirty money going from the Fed to Goldman Sachs or the fact that the year after a massive bailout, GE made 10s of billions in PROFITS and ended up getting a multibillion dollar TAX REFUND when mom and pop shops struggle to pay their 35%. And why are we still in 2 wars and starting a third?
Its good to know our Senators want to pretend to grill the shills from Google and apple before they all go for co*cktails and exchange campaign donations for thank yous, but sheesh, we have more important fake shows of outrage to fill the hours on CSPAN.
Now that I have my cynical rant out of my system, let me say that Al Frankin is a great Senator and appears to be one of the few in DC working for the people.
Reply 2 of 76
anantksundaramPosts: 20,405member
April 25, 2011 7:44PM
Apple can easily avoid all of this fuss by coming out and explaining why they're doing what they're doing, and more important, allowing users the option to not sync the location data with iTunes (just as they do with calendar, contacts etc.) It's not such a big deal.
Otherwise, this story is going to get much worse before it gets better.
Reply 3 of 76
mdriftmeyerPosts: 7,503member
April 25, 2011 7:48PM
Apple and Google will be there to help the US Senate craft new legislation that clarifies what is legitimate and what is not.
In the end, Apple's application Localization services will be the legitimate version as it's designed to make your 3rd party apps experience that much more rich and seamless.
I look forward to Google having to curb their usages for the data they actually encrypt and then collection back to corporate.
Reply 4 of 76
anantksundaramPosts: 20,405member
April 25, 2011 7:52PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
Apple and Google will be there to help the US Senate craft new legislation that clarifies what is legitimate and what is not.
I am not sure that I want Google to have anything to do with 'crafting' legislation that affects me.
About Apple, I worry less.
Reply 5 of 76
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April 25, 2011 7:56PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
I am not sure that I want Google to have anything to do with 'crafting' legislation that affects me.
About Apple, I worry less.
I would be just as worried about apple...they are in the ad game too, and their goal as with any business is to make as much as possible, if they could get some bad stuff in law to protect the location features that they may want to use for iAds, they would be obligated to do so by the shareholders.
Reply 6 of 76
solipsismPosts: 25,726member
April 25, 2011 7:57PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
...allowing users the option to not sync the location data with iTunes (just as they do with calendar, contacts etc.) It's not such a big deal.
1) Would that make a difference? The data will still be on your device. The problem seems to be with the amount of cache of locations not the fact that the information is cached at all, coupled with the people blowing it out of proportion and ignoring actual sensitive data that is on the device, in the backups, and in your user accounts on your Mac/PC.
2) Where can you exclude iCal and Address Book from the backups? I only see the option to prevent them from syncing from your user account and the device via iTunes.
Reply 7 of 76
magicjPosts: 406member
April 25, 2011 8:02PM
Glad to see they're bringing Google in as well.
Reply 8 of 76
solipsismPosts: 25,726member
April 25, 2011 8:06PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj
Glad to see they're bringing Google in as well.
Seems to me that those they aren?t bringing in have no mindshare. No RiM and no MS yet they both record location data, too.
Reply 9 of 76
anantksundaramPosts: 20,405member
April 25, 2011 8:08PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
1) Would that make a difference? The data will still be on your device. The problem seems to be with the amount of cache of locations not the fact that the information is cached at all, coupled with the people blowing it out of proportion and ignoring actual sensitive data that is on the device, in the backups, and in your user accounts on your Mac/PC.
2) Where can you exclude iCal and Address Book from the backups? I only see the option to prevent them from syncing from your user account and the device via iTunes.
1) I can easily wipe the device clean, in the event.
2) Yeah, that option.
Perhaps you could tell me, since I am genuinely puzzled by your stance on this: why is it such a big deal to you that Apple have the right to collect information about you that you do not control? (Apple has admitted to collecting it twice a day, without your consent).
Reply 10 of 76
itudyPosts: 5member
April 25, 2011 8:09PM
Reply 11 of 76
boogerman2000Posts: 417member
April 25, 2011 8:10PM
I wholeheartedly believe that Google is an untrustworthy entity. I just recently attempted to cancel my Google voice number only to discover that there is no way to do so. I've written to them(not easy to do), only to receive a curt response confirming. So they said to the effect, " we care about privacy, we're working on it" / end rant.
On topic. I'm with Anant on this one. I tend to believe that Apple will do the right thing here, or at least I'll put my faith in their hands over Google any day. Its all a bit unnerving.
This is an important read: http://www.theatlantic.com/technolog...-think/237786/
Reply 12 of 76
hmurchisonPosts: 12,425member
April 25, 2011 8:10PM
Phew
"Gubment" comes in to save the day against Smartphone terrorism.
Reply 13 of 76
anantksundaramPosts: 20,405member
April 25, 2011 8:18PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
I would be just as worried about apple...they are in the ad game too, and their goal as with any business is to make as much as possible, if they could get some bad stuff in law to protect the location features that they may want to use for iAds, they would be obligated to do so by the shareholders.
Apple is not in the 'ad game' in any significant way. Not remotely.
Reply 14 of 76
johnthebatonPosts: 9member
April 25, 2011 8:19PM
Oh this is too ironic - the federal government is protecting us from the private market big brothers. Do did Orwell get it exactly wrong? Who could have guesses that it would be the private market, and not Big Brother, that would be tracking our every move. Granted, Apple and Google don't also control our military, so the analogy to 1984 is not perfect. On the other hand Google and Twitter were instrumental in overthrowing the Egyptian government, so their power is very real...
Reply 15 of 76
anantksundaramPosts: 20,405member
April 25, 2011 8:20PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Phew
"Gubment" comes in to save the day against Smartphone terrorism.
I don't know about gubment, smartphones, and 'terrorism,' but the links between mobile phones and terrorism are all-too-well-known for you to be making silly jokes about it.
Reply 16 of 76
solipsismPosts: 25,726member
April 25, 2011 8:29PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
1) I can easily wipe the device clean, in the event.
Part of the hysteria was someone being able to find your device and hacking into it to find your general locations. I think that is silly when you have so much more info on your device that is important.
Quote:
2) Yeah, that option.
As I stated, I don’t think that has to do with backups, but with syncing your Mac OS and Windows calander, address book, mail books and notes from your system TO your iDevice.
Quote:
Perhaps you could tell me, since I am genuinely puzzled by your stance on this: why is it such a big deal to you that Apple have the right to collect information about you that you do not control? (Apple has admitted to collecting it twice a day, without your consent).
1) I have no problem with Apple being held accountable for their actions and have stated I would like an answer and resolution to their not clearing the cache. What I have a problem with is what I stated above about getting upset about the DB being on your iDevice and in your backups when it’s so trifling compared to actual specific data users keep on their iDevices and in their user accounts.
2) Last I read this data was not being sent to Apple, only kept in consolidated.db on your iDevice and in your iTunes backup which is how the iPhone Tracker app works and why this became an issue; not because this info was being sent to Apple. You quoted the info about it being sent to Apple as if it’s new info, not the same issue that has been discussed since last week
3) From the iPhone Tracker app site:
Why is Apple collecting this information?
It’s unclear. One guess might be that they have new features in mind that require a history of your location, but that’s pure speculation. The fact that it's transferred across devices when you restore or migrate is evidence the data-gathering isn't accidental.
4) If Apple is collecting this 2x a day then what sense does it make to keep the data cached on the device or include it in a backup if it’s simply for data mining. They seem to cancel each other out.
5) Until I read some official stance that Apple is data mining and logging my position for some nefarious purpose and that consolidated.db has absolutely no benefit for quickly establishing a link I just can’t get worked up over this non-issue.
Reply 17 of 76
hmurchisonPosts: 12,425member
April 25, 2011 8:31PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
I don't know about gubment, smartphones, and 'terrorism,' but the links between mobile phones and terrorism are all-too-well-known for you to be making silly jokes about it.
This meeting does absolutely nothing for the citizen but waste Government resources. You may as well bring MasterCard/Visa/AMEX and other credit lenders in as well since my swipe puts at least my card at a specified terminal at a specified time.
Why fool citizens into thinking they have inhibited freedom of travel? I knew purchasing a cell phone meant that my every transaction could be pored over later.
Remember that guy that was sending text messages and failed to switch the train tracks? I don't think anyone ever promised me that my location on my phone wouldn't be known to others or stored.
Faux outrage coming from the media and faux concern coming from the Government.
Reply 18 of 76
jacksonsPosts: 244member
April 25, 2011 8:50PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Apple is not in the 'ad game' in any significant way. Not remotely.
But it looks like they are getting ready to collect information so they could be
Reply 19 of 76
anantksundaramPosts: 20,405member
April 25, 2011 9:03PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons
But it looks like they are getting ready to collect information so they could be
No they're not.
They could be -- and probably are -- collecting such information for a whole bunch of other reasons.
Reply 20 of 76
anantksundaramPosts: 20,405member
April 25, 2011 9:11PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
2) Last I read this data was not being sent to Apple, only kept in consolidated.db on your iDevice and in your iTunes backup which is how the iPhone Tracker app works and why this became an issue; not because this info was being sent to Apple. You quoted the info about it being sent to Apple as if it?s new info, not the same issue that has been discussed since last week
You obviously missed this story:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...723453610.html
And this:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ch_LEFTTopNews
Both very impressive pieces of reporting.
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